Washington Mutual demanda a la FDIC por 17 billones US$ + daños

Lo que tenemos que tener claro es que a la mesa del EC se sentaran los 7 maximos accionistas, PERO que representen todas las clases de acciones que wamu posee
Me parece muy dificil que TPG no tenga representación en el EC aunque las leyes que rigen la formación del mismo sinceramente las desconozco.
Pero creo que nos estamos volviendo locos con el tema de los bonos de TPG, por que no tenemos ninguna evidencia de ese cambio, verdad?

De todas formas Postman si los bonos ya estan a un 90% de su valor, parece dificil que con una subida del 10% TPG recupere ni de cerca lo que podría conseguir con acuerdo minimamente aceptable para las comunes, pero la verdad no tengo los datos para asegurarlo.

http://ghostofwamu.com/forum/index.php?topic=2120.0;topicseen

Muy buena conversación sobre este tema.

El proceso de lo que ocurrirá el lunes está aquí:
http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/ust_org/ustp_manual/volume3/vol3ch04.htm

Extraido del foro Ghost:

Dollhairs
Genuinebeachbum
Bgriffinokc
Wfmandmusic
Pham cbs
Oilmann

Tenemos al menos 12 ojos que van a estar al loro de todo lo que ocurre entre bastidores. Llevamos 15 meses esperando una noticia de esta magnitud. Relajemonos este finde que ya queda muy poquito. La aprobación no será instantanea, será una reunión más informativa pero tendremos la estrategia clara previa al día 28 Enero. (1er round)

UST (sus palabras)
I just got off the phone with the UST - John and had ask what we could expect in the meeting. He stated that there will be about a 5 minute overview of the case (nothing more than what is already available in the court docs) and then the selection would occur. Afterwords those selected may or maynot meet, but in any case it sounds like about the only information anybody that attends could gather is who gets selected to set on the Committee.

Nota Final: Si algun miembro es elegido para el EC no podrá comentar nada y no podrá hacer trading sin permido de la corte.

Imagen del DoubleTree Hotel donde el lunes se celebrará la reunión del EC

Mr_Simpson con tu permiso voy a colgar algunos de los post del thread de Ghostofwamu ya que me consta que algunos de compañeros que postean aqui no pueden ver dicho foro por que no por el momento no aceptan mas miembros.

Post mas relevantes a mi jucio:

1º Turoflynn
Weil is running out of time. They are opposing an equity committee.

I was thinking the other day maybe their whole strategy has been to time everything so that assets become greater than liabilities after BK is over. With that, they will propose giving creditors litigation warrants, equity nothing. BK is over. They move on to DC.
They battle that out and in the end there is a big pool of assets just for creditors (holding the warrants).

Can anyone out there bring up reasons to debunk this theory? I hope.

Is it possible they delay receiving the tax refund somehow and get it after the BK is over?

2º Estreamer
This isn't really new, we've discussed it before. I think its definitely a possibility but Bopfan and others have stated that there's no way the judge lets them get away with it given the sheer scope of the charges in this case and potential litigation.

3º duyrowndd
I have though this for some time...
If TPG owned bonds, then their payout in this scenario has a good potential to be greater than the payout on the commons they own.
I was never able to figure out if TPG owned bonds though...

Continuo en el siguiente post para no hacerlo muy largo

4º bigpictureboss
It has been discussed at length that 'exclusivity' is compromised after 18 months.

The link has been posted around.
I'll look for it.

~BIG

--Sille Posted---

The debtor (unless a "small business debtor") has a 120-day period during which it has an exclusive right to file a plan. 11 U.S.C. § 1121(b). This exclusivity period may be extended or reduced by the court. But, in no event, may the exclusivity period, including all extensions, be longer than 18 months. 11 U.S.C. § 1121(d). After the exclusivity period has expired, a creditor or the case trustee may file a competing plan. The U.S. trustee may not file a plan. 11 U.S.C. § 307.

A chapter 11 case may continue for many years unless the court, the U.S. trustee, the committee, or another party in interest acts to ensure the case's timely resolution. The creditors' right to file a competing plan provides incentive for the debtor to file a plan within the exclusivity period and acts as a check on excessive delay in the case.

5º turoflynn
Yes I had not thought of this. We should have a committee by then so we could object to any plan where Weil proposes equity get nothing and creditors everything. Then once their time is up then equity gets a chance at proposing, unless Weil proposes a great plan everyone loves miraculously.

6º Sgtofarms
I hate to say hog wash, but hog wash. If that was the case Weil would settle RIGHT NOW FOR NOTHING. There's enough A to cover bonds and debt. Also, why file for a 2004 discovery and now recently an expanded 2004 discovery if he was just going to go through the motions and throw equity out with the bath water. Not a chance in hell IMO.

7º turoflynn
I'm not sure Sgt. Here's another random theory. They could be going through all these motions (2004 discovery), so they are essentially using BK powers to get all this info, then get out of BK and bring on a new suit where they pay creditors all proceeds from that suit.

I don't know law so none of this may be possible. I'm just trying to figure out why debtors are always so opposed to equity. They were opposed to equity in the last BK case I followed.

Again, all of my talk is pointless if an equity committee is formed because then we have a say on what happens with us.

In order to stop a hacker or terrorist we have to think how they think. Think what their motives are. That's what I'm trying to do here. It might result it being helpful to the future equity committee.

Continua

8º Sgtofarms
The cram down scenario won't work if A>L. Its close now and with the taxes returned (approx 5.5B and the amount of litigation) I doubt THJW would approve of such a scenario. I'm no attorney, but others with the expertise have weighed in on the matter.

Granted, I don't like the posture Weil has taken since the last omnibus hearing and against the EC, but I have a hard time grasping the notion that they will cancel equity, reorganize, and litigate billions that would essentially make bond holders virtually over 50B when they could have been paid in full at approx 6.5B.

9ºf.ckthewhat
yeah, but the point is that there's more than one way to skin a cat.. cramdown/cancellation isn't the only possible avenue for damaging equity, and i agree.. i think cramdown/cancellation is highly unlikely to the point of improbability at this juncture

10º WaMuQd
That's a huge understatement. When you look at the vast number of billions in play in these lawsuits, should Weil find a way to base what the equity gets on anything close to that they've got on hand... uhg.

There's no way of really knowing which way this is going to turn next. Weil bought themselves some time by ignoring the UST for a couple of weeks, so again... I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. They were stalling for some reason and I just don't believe that it was that they were simply "too busy doing other things".

11ºSpikeM
I'm reading this thread and I can't help but think how fickle we are. I realize that Weil is representing the estate and is technically not looking after equity as it's primary concern, but they are still on our side. I still can't help but think that a top law firm wants to control all facets of this action and not have a JV EC team there messing up their game. Will an EC assure equity get it's fair share of the pie, yes, I believe that 100%. Without an EC, would bondholders probably get more than if there was an EC, most likely. Without an EC, would equity be completely screwed with a significant recovery (more than 2-4B), I'm on the fence, but think Weil would pay out commons if there were a $10B+ settlement. I also believe that an EC will be a large complication to the Weil case, something that they've planned for, but had hoped that they might avoid. Just because they'd hoped to discourage the formation of an EC doesn't, all of a sudden, mean that they are out to work with JPM and 100% screw equity (unless someone here is actually "in the know").

Basically, I'm not seeing this as a black and white situation. Regardless of an EC, Weil wants to WIN this case, or at a minimum get JPM to settle for a large amount. I see Weil wanting to control everything and an EC being a major complication to that. In my opinion, that's why Rosen said his discouraging remark. How the "pie" gets divided after the dust settles, that's where I'm happy we'll have an EC.

12º bobinchina03
Spike, I agree that we should not be paranoid about Weil's activities, and yet at the same time my business experience tells me to be cautious as Weil is not being paid by equity per se. Whoever retained them is their master, and they will work towards the direction provided in the end. If it were the case that Weil could settle this case and then have provision for an EC that would ensure an equitable distribution that would, in my opinion, be a suitable scenario. I am by no means versed in bankruptcies, so I am not sure that is feasible. I have come to believe that an EC is critical at this stage to ensure that equity is not sidestepped in any negotiations, to the enrichment of bondholders only.

That said, I think that any who come to be on the EC would be in contact at some level with Weil and company to follow the proceedings, knowing when to "stay out of it" and when to support our interests as required.

Probably stating the obvious, but these points of discussion are valid and are of concern to everyone here.

13ºkeith
Equity is not irrelevant. What I mean is:

Because of BK, the priorities have changed. Out of BK, Equity is above Debt, in BK the opposite is true. Just because the law creates the hierarchy, does not mean human beings think the same way. IMO a common share price of $8.00 * 1,700,000,000 equals $13,600,000,000. That is 13.6 Billion dollars. That figure alone surpasses the the total debt by billions.

Equity is not irrelevant. IMO THJMW believes the same thing. BK court is a court of equity which is defined as "the state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair."

There is no way in hell WMI gets out of this without "BEING JUST, IMPARTIAL AND FAIR". It is THJMW's job to ensure this outcome. WMI can't hurry up to screw stockholders. This case is so huge, that all I's will be dotted and T's crossed to ensure accuracy and equity to all.

14º Dragynn
Never trust a wildcat when you come up on one huntin' the same pack of feral hogs.

Technically, you may be on the same side, and both working towards the same goal of putting food on the table vis-a-vis the greedy fat pigs who have destroyed and/or eaten everything for miles around, and you may even admire that puma for his unique skills and how efficient and well-suited he is for the job at hand. But never think for a second he won't turn on you if he thinks you may be trying to take a chunk of his kill.

And big cats ain't lawyers, they don't know what greed is.

I know this from PERSONAL experience.

The EC is that .45 Colt on your hip that tells that cat that discretion might be the better part of valor.

15º SpikeM
I agree, 100%. I trust Weil's expertise, but would also verify/oversee and be cautious. They have been very good for us, overall, so far. I am also not saying that we should follow them blindly and I know that no lawyer ever works for free (true free, there's always an agenda). Having an EC committee is a great check to balance the whole BK/Settlement for Equity.

My main reason for the post is that on the Yahoo! board and here (to a lesser degree) it seems as if the mood has changed to Weil is against us and out to screw us in every way possible. Weil is still here to win the case (as a big star next to their name and a hefty sum), having an EC as oversight for "us" is a big win for us too.

Perdonad todos por todo este tocho de post en ingles, pero como a comentado Mr_Simpson es un tema interesante y creo que esta bien qeu todos dispongamos de la misma información
Saludos